WORKSHOP: Socratic Tactics in the MENO: Can We Learn To Be Good?
By Don Finkel
Divide up into groups of four. Select one member of each group to be a scribe and another member to be a clock-watcher.
PART I: Some Key Moments in the Dialogue (a little over 2 hours)
1. (30 mins.) Here is a reasonable account of Meno's motivation at the very start of the dialogue. Meno is a stranger in town, a guest, and he is a great admirer, perhaps even a student, of the sophist, Gorgias. He seeks out the man he has heard is one of the most reputed sophists in Athens in order to see how he measures up to Gorgias. In order to make the comparison, he poses a typical "debater's question" of the day, expecting Socrates to respond to it with a fancy speech, well crafted, persuasive, and eloquent. He will then be able to compare Socrates with Gorgias, and report the results home to his friends who have perhaps heard rumors of the Athenian, Socrates. The results will either enhance Gorgias' reputation or Socrates'.
Read carefully the first page of the text, up to the place (71e) where Meno defines virtue.
a. What has happened? How has Socrates responded to Meno's straightforward request?
b. Find and describe three specific "ploys" or "moves" or "tactics" that Socrates uses in order to turn the conversation in a direction (or toward a purpose) different from the one Meno had in mind.
c. At 71b4, Socrates says, as an example, "Do you suppose that somebody entirely ignorant of who Meno is could say whether he is handsome ..." Do you think this example was chosen at random? What might be the possible impact of Socrates' choice of that particular example?
d. What is the importance of the line at 71d4, "Then let's leave [Gorgias] out of it, since after all he isn't here"? Discuss fully the implications of this statement.
2. (15 mins.) Once Meno agrees to try to define virtue, he gives Socrates a list of virtues (71e). This list is basically a list of cultural values; it represents the common sense of the culture.
a. Why is Socrates not satisfied with a list (any list) for an answer?
b. How does the image of the swarm of bees (72a-b) help Socrates get his objection across to Meno?
c. Aside from the logical point Socrates is making, what else is suggested by a swarm of bees? What are the connotations (suggestive associations) of this image and what might they suggest to an astute listener?
d. Consider the following word-analogy question: "Cultural Values" are to "a list of virtues" as ________ is to "a universal definition of virtue." What term or phrase might appropriate go in the blank?
3. (5 mins.) After Meno persists in not grasping the distinction between "a virtue" and "virtue," Socrates shifts to the example of shape to try to make the issue more concrete. At 75a, he asks Meno the same question about shape that he had previously asked about virtue. Meno then employs a typical student strategy. He tries to get the teacher to answer his own question ("No, you do it, Socrates").
a. How does Socrates respond to this request?
b. Why do you think Socrates agrees to define shape and color, rather than pressing Meno to do the hard work?
4. (40 mins.) Socrates gets Meno to stick to his end of the deal and define virtue. Meno gives a poet's answer (77b) and Socrates proceeds to show him, in a step by step fashion the illogical consequences of his definition. The same thing happens afte r Meno changes his definition one or two more times (depending on how you count them). Socrates ends this sequence with a typical Socratic request: "Then go back to the beginning and answer my question. What do you and your friend say that virtue is?" (79e4) The work of inquiry is getting too hard for Meno and he wants to quit. First he compares Socrates to a sting ray (80a6) and then he presents as an objection to the inquiry, or to any inquiry, a debater's paradox or "trick argument": "But how will you look for something when you don't in the least know what it is?" (80d5) This is a crucial point in the dialogue, since Meno wants to quit, and, from Socrates point of view, they are still at the beginning.
a. Meno's metaphor of the sting ray provides one of the most vivid descriptions of aporia in the dialogues. How does it square with what you decided aporia was last week? Does this metaphor add anything new to your understanding of apo ria?
b. Socrates responds (at 80b7) to Meno's "accusing metaphor" in two ways in two ways: first by flirtatiously accusing Meno of flirting with him, and then by transforming or expanding the metaphor. What might be the effect of the first of these ta ctics?
c. Do you believe Socrates when he admits to being like a sting ray only if sting rays paralyze themselves too?
d. The debater's paradox represents a more serious threat to the ongoing inquiry. Socrates responds in two ways: The first is that he tells Meno a myth{1} about the soul ("I have heard from men and women who understand the truths of religion ..." 81a)< p> i) What is the myth? (Ignore the Pindar quotes and just get clear on the story about the soul.)
ii) What is the point of the myth?
iii) Find and cite the exact sentences of Socrates which explain the point of the myth and his reason for his "being convinced of its truth." (I prefer Grube's translation of this passage in which Socrates says "I trust that this is true." (my em phasis).
e. The second response Socrates gives is to arrange a dramatic enactment of the myth of recollection. This is the famous episode where Socrates supposedly elicits mathematical knowledge from the slave boy. Remembering the context of where and why this incident occurs in the conversation with Meno, what would you say is the point of this demonstration? What does Socrates accomplish by going through this dramatic enactment of the myth of recollection?
f. Read the passage at 86b6 that begins with Socrates saying, "I think I am." After reading this passage, do you think or do you not think that Socrates believes the "story" of the soul that he told to Meno. Answers in between "yes" or "no" are accepta ble here.
5. (20 mins.) At 86d Meno agrees to go on, but employs another student tactic to make his work easier: He suggests substituting a different question for the one under consideration, one that is likely to be easier. He wishes to pursue questions in the wrong order, trying to determine whether virtue can be taught even before he knows what virtue is.
a. What is Socrates response to this request? Does this surprise you? Why do you suppose Socrates proceeds as he does at this moment?
b. Is this really the "wrong order"? What do you think of Socrates' repeated claim that it is improper to investigate aspects or qualities of X before we know what X is?
c. As part of agreeing to break his own rules of inquiry, Socrates introduces a new method at this point, the method of hypothesis. What is the method of hypothesis and how does it differ from his usual mode of inquiry?
d. Does the method of hypothesis represent an advance (a new discovery) or is it just another one of Socrates' ploys?
6. (15 mins.) At 89a ff. ("ff." means "and following"), Meno and Socrates finally seem to have gotten somewhere. Reasoning "from a hypothesis," they have arrived together at the conclusion that "virtue, either in whole or in part, is wisdom [knowledge] " and that since "virtue is knowledge, it is teachable." (89c)
a. What is Socrates' immediate response to this happy moment?
b. Why does he take away from Meno their hard-won conclusion?
c. Why do you think he went through the difficult argument to establish the conclusion at 89b9-89c when he could have from the beginning eliminated it by bringing out the easy argument that good men's obvious inability to make their sons good shows that virtue is not teachable, hence not knowledge?
LUNCH BREAK - 1 HOUR: It should now be 12:15. Return at 1:15 and continue on Part II in your small group. Part II should take 1 hour, 15 mins. We will reconvene in Lib. 2116 at 2:30 for Part III.
PART II. Conclusions (1 hour, 15 mins.)
1. (15 mins.) List 7 specific tactics Socrates uses to try to get Meno to pursue a genuine intellectual inquiry.{2} (Do this by going back to the moments we have examined, and naming or describing each specific "ploy," "move," or "tactic" Socrates empl oys.)
2. (10 mins.) Considering these tactics as a whole, how would you characterize the "approach" Socrates is taking with Meno? Would you consider this approach a form of teaching?
3. (5 mins.) Socrates' mode is sometimes considered a kind of seduction. Do you think the term "seduction" fits the process you have examined here or not? Explain.
4. (20 mins.) Many people think that the slave boy "geometry lesson" is a good model of "Socratic method." There is a case to be made on either side. Compare Socrates way of acting with Meno with the way he acts with the slave boy. First list as many similarities as you can. Then list as many differences as you can. Now examine your two lists, try to consider each as an organized whole, and decide: Do you think Socrates' inquiry with the slave boy makes a good parallel to his inquiry with Meno? ( Be prepared to present your answer to this question, with reasons, to the class.)
5. (25 mins.) The following 5 questions obviously could be discussed endlessly. For now, discuss them briefly, but incisively.
a. What, if anything, did Meno learn from his conversation with Socrates?
b. Did Meno learn anything about virtue from the conversation?
c. Was there anything about virtue to be learned from the conversation as we find it in the text?
d. Do you think we can learn to be good?
e. Could anyone who behaved as Socrates does in this dialogue help you learn to be good?
PART III: Whole Group Discussion (30 mins.)
Reconvene in Lib. 2116 at 2:30 for a discussion of the highlights.
FOOTNOTES******************************** {1} By using the word "myth," I mean to invoke the Greek word "mythos," which means "story," and which contrasts with "logos," which means (among other things) "argument."
{2} In the dialogue as a whole, I counted 17 without searching very hard!